Turning Towards Life - a Thirdspace podcast

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Join Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise from Thirdspace for weekly conversations that ask how we might bring ourselves to life with as much courage and wisdom as we can. We start each episode with inspiring sources and then dive deep together into the questions and possibilities they open up. Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, YouTube

All Episodes

As Oliver Burkeman writes in our source for this week "So much of our suffering arises from attempting to control what is not in our control. And the main thing we try but fail to control – the seasoned worriers among us, anyway – is the future". This episode of Turning Towards Life is a conversation about what can happen when we start to relax our attempts to have life go exactly our way, the many ways this can have us return to our lives as they are, and how all this can uncover our capacity to love, delight-in and respond-to life and those around us, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source this week is brought to us by Justin: The future will never provide the reassurance you seek from it. Oliver Burkeman As the ancient Greek and Roman Stoics understood, much of our suffering arises from attempting to control what is not in our control. And the main thing we try but fail to control – the seasoned worriers among us, anyway – is the future. We want to /know/, from our vantage point in the present, that things will be OK later on. But we never can. (This is why it’s wrong to say we live in especially uncertain times. The future is always uncertain; it’s just that we’re currently very aware of it.) It’s freeing to grasp that no amount of fretting will ever alter this truth. It’s still useful to make plans. But do that with the awareness that a plan is only ever a present-moment statement of intent, not a lasso thrown around the future to bring it under control. The spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti said his secret was simple: “I don’t mind what happens.” That needn’t mean not trying to make life better, for yourself or others. It just means not living each day anxiously braced to see if things work out as you hoped. from Oliver Burkeman's excellent recent article 'The Eight Secrets to a (fairly) fulfilled life'. https://bit.ly/3iKkjid (https://bit.ly/3iKkjid?fbclid=IwAR2350YyqAGcG0ZtFiILzXNfDQrW6B7RMRFbAMTdIj32jidrBaTznaHTI0M) Photo by Frank McKenna on Unsplash

Sep 20

34 min

A great deal of our suffering comes from our certainty that life is meant to go our way... and this certainty easily throws us into on the one hand imagining we're meant to have the powers only a deity could have and, on the other hand, feeling small and cynical and disconnected from life. But what if we could see that we're participants in something much more like a dance in which we barely know the steps, and came to be less certain about exactly how this would turn out or, even, quite what it is that we are dancing with. This episode of Turning Towards Life is a conversation about looking beyond our certainty and catching a glimpse, perhaps, of something quite astonishing beneath, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source this week is brought to us by Lizzie: ANGELS by MARY OLIVER You might see an angel anytime and anywhere. Of course you have to open your eyes to a kind of second level, but it’s not really hard. The whole business of what’s reality and what isn’t has never been solved and probably never will be. So I don’t care to be too definite about anything. I have a lot of edges called Perhaps and almost nothing you can call Certainty. For myself, but not for other people. That’s a place you just can’t get into, not entirely anyway, other people’s heads. I’ll just leave you with this. I don’t care how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It’s enough to know that for some people they exist, and that they dance. Photo by Josh Howard (https://unsplash.com/@thejoshhoward?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Sep 13

31 min

We're encouraged to live our lives as a way of controlling things - most particularly in the realm of acting into the world to get attention from others and to be recognised as special. This understanding leads us quickly down a painful and deeply unsatisfying path of needing to be verified at every turn. But if instead we could learn to pay attention to life, and to find a way to receive the one unique life that we are, we might find ourselves more fully inhabiting the gifts of our lives and, perhaps paradoxically, more able to be a genuine contribution to the life of others. This episode of Turning Towards Life is a conversation about how we can find our place in the beauty of things by the way we pay attention to life, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source this week is written by Mark Nepo. Much of our anxiety and inner turmoil comes from living in a global culture whose values drive us from the essence of what matters. At the heart of this is the conflict between the outer definition of success and the inner value of peace. Unfortunately, we are encouraged, even trained, to get attention when the renewing secret of life is to give attention. From performing well on tests to positioning ourselves for promotions, we are schooled to believe that that to succeed we must get attention and be recognized as special, when the threshold to all that is extraordinary in life opens only when we devote ourselves to giving attention, not getting it. Things come alive for us only when we dare to see and recognize everything as special. The longer we try to get attention instead of giving it, the deeper our unhappiness. It leads us to move through the world dreaming of greatness, needing to be verified at every turn, when feelings of oneness grace us only when verify the world around us. It makes us desperate to be loved when we sorely need the medicine of being loving. One reason so many of us are lonely in our dream of success is that instead of looking for what is clear and true, we learn to covet what is great and powerful. One reason we live so far from peace is that instead of loving our way into the nameless joy of spirit, we think fame will soothe us. And while we are busy dreaming of being a celebrity, we stifle our need to see and give love, all of which opens us to the true health of celebration. It leaves us with these choices: fame or peace, be a celebrity or celebrate being, work all our days to be seen or devote ourselves to seeing, build our identity on the attention we can get or find our place in the beauty of things by the attention we can give. (From “The book of awakening’, Mark Nepo) Photo by Bryan Hanson (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Funsplash.com%2F%40bryanhanson%3Futm_source%3Dunsplash%26utm_medium%3Dreferral%26utm_content%3DcreditCopyText%26fbclid%3DIwAR0V8DpFDygHkzv45mpiSxEaFG2jWUGsX8T3GNiI-RCwBaB-uRGySdNnmuY&h=AT2KzeBdmVff6TJzAFDON1kpyBjtWfz9GTHEW5uHPV1C87mEddIPvElMTXuvz860wuhdBqryCEPiO8gjyE_TSCiLL9_DE_I0g-pp0kOOF3EcPN7VgUqI0_Q7agIS6rSqu1EmyAvFERqaNLfC0yqoWQ-8vOo) on Unsplash (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Funsplash.com%2Fs%2Fphotos%2Fbird%3Futm_source%3Dunsplash%26utm_medium%3Dreferral%26utm_content%3DcreditCopyText%26fbclid%3DIwAR0V8DpFDygHkzv45mpiSxEaFG2jWUGsX8T3GNiI-RCwBaB-uRGySdNnmuY&h=AT0TnaJhRN0Su3IXevZmYpII_yn5jKtrXJxTcpsIQ8V5x48Spac2gA1y7o4ylJDpS2qGqAdckoL6NhXsUT3PUkZ3YDieQt0c0mEc4dMB7bGPcQVeCj7CYdfBE6QfmzzwtUh9qZK2t81IobFcFYmZGz6c5Ww)

Sep 6

34 min

How often we compare ourselves to impossible standards of perfection, and how often this comparison produces the kind of contraction, efforting, and pushing that distances us from ourselves and others, and that is the opposite of what we seek. This episode of Turning Towards Life is a conversation about how we might find playful ways of loving the messiness that it is to be human and, from there, respond with the love, care and creativity that our lives call for, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen by Lizzie. Do not give me only perfect Do not give me only perfect For there is beauty in what lacks, The things that are most true Are filled with flaws, covered in cracks, So stumble on your sentences, forget the words you need, To those parading as perfection I must say, pay them no heed. For it is you and your surroundings, It is you and how you feel, You and those you love Which are the things that are most real. And if that means burnt toast and breakdowns Know there is strength in salty tears, Which says “I will not let the world tell me there’s failure in my fears.” So be afraid and be forgetful, Please just be with all your heart, And if it happens that it’s broken Then be yourself with every part. Erin Hanson Photo by Saira (https://unsplash.com/@sairaa?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/tree-woman?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Aug 30

32 min

Very often our relationship to the world is, in some way, a projection of the inner relationships between the different parts of ourselves. And, just as often, our experience of others is really a projection of some part of us. All of this can very much get in the way of our being in full and truthful contact with what's outside us. This episode of Turning Towards Life is a conversation about how we might become more skilful at letting go of the grip our inner parts have over our experience - and in doing so how we can find a way to more fully see and appreciate the parts of ourselves and others that less often get our attention, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is written by Justin: Parts of me, Parts of Her It increasingly occurs to me That my relationship to the world Is most often a reflection Of the relationships between parts of myself. It helps me to remember That I often see in other people That of myself that I Fear, am ashamed of, or have learned to hide away That there are other inner relationships I can call on The parts of me that are settled when I’m anxious, that love when I’m irritated, that are courageous and able to take action when other parts of me are paralysed with fear. When I’m bewildered by her rage, to remember to stay in relationship with the part of her that is love; when I’m frustrated by his uncertainty to remember the part of him that is clarity; And that my certainty that she’s judging me might well be the part of me that judges myself that my need to rescue him is often the part of me that itself longs to be rescued And that until I learn to see though my ways of pushing away and judging and projecting my interior world I can expect to have a tricky time loving the outer world, in which I live every day, as fully as I could. Justin Wise, http://www.justinwise.co.uk Photo by Roselyn Tirado (https://unsplash.com/@roselyntirado?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/man-woman?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Aug 24

37 min

As we grow in whatever family and wider culture we're born into, we inevitably find out that parts of us are not welcome. Most of us are pretty adept at exiling or hiding those parts away. But what if, instead of labelling them, judging them, and trying to keep them out of view, we learned to turn towards them as if they were bearers of gifts? And what if we could learn that we are indeed made up of many parts, and did what we could to welcome them all? Our 150th episode of Turning Towards Life is a conversation about the freedom that can be gained when we stop over-identifying with particular parts, and the step by step path to recovering our own wholeness that comes when we're willing to do the uncertain messy and loving work of welcoming exiled parts home - with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is written by Lizzie: The Dark Bathing in Warmth Brings Light Not so easily named but felt, just outside of my vision, Who is this elusive and powerful part of life, Calling my name and disappearing as I turn to see? I know now that it has to feel safe to be in the light, So I reassure and don’t look too directly on as she inches forward to talk. When she talks there’s hardness and meanness there, And in my safety I can hear her without mistaking her as the whole of me (how often have I done that?). I hold her in my hands, in my heart, Let her cry and rage and be mean. As long as she will let me. And all the while I try to hold this as just a part,  Just some of me, not all.  And this way I can hold, I can be with, I can witness and most gladly I can learn and let the passion and purpose flow from this part to all of me with all it has to give.  All these years she’s been banished and afraid, and now she comes to sit with us. Sits and says it like it is, and she has space. Not all the space she sometimes wants, but space none the less. Enough to be fully heard, learned from, embraces and treated as important and equal.  May I always see this part with my heart and remember my faith in the times of fear. She is here to love me too. She doesn’t have the power to take me over if I turn and look with loving eyes and an open and courageous heart.  She is me, I am her. And I regain so much by turning into her darkness with my light shining faithful and bright, my warmth thick and soft. by Lizzie Winn, August 2020 Photo by Joshua Sortino (https://unsplash.com/@sortino?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/dark-light?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Aug 16

35 min

How would we live our lives if we understood our mortality to be a gift - one we were given by all those who came before us, and that makes possible the lives of those who will come after us? What kindness and forgiveness might we bring to our lives if we understood that each of us - especially those with whom we are in difficulty - is a brief flash of life in a universe-sized unfolding process? Episode 149 of Turning Towards Life is a conversation about how we might stop trying to be unaffected by our lives and instead turn to our losses and what's next with grace, creativity and compassion  - with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen for us by Justin. Mortality is the gift the living give to the future Words by Bradley Shavit Artson, excerpted from his book 'God of Becoming and Relationship (https://amzn.to/2PET7V7) ' The wonder of life, awesome and terrible, is that it renews itself constantly by sloughing off the old and embracing the new... Just as we thrill that babies, infants, and children refuse to do things the way they have always been done, bringing a relentless energy to their lives and to ours, so too we know that what is old breaks down and gives way before the young. Life, in this cascading process of endless renewal, splashes across the millennia towards greater diversity, experience, relationship and connection. Human beings, like all living creatures, are events.  Moment by moment we shift and change and move with time, created anew each moment. We may be dying, but we are not yet dead. In that sense, mortality is the gift the living give to the future.  Awareness that we are dying should serve to focus our attention on living. It should make what is unimportant less important. We do not have time to waste: not on people we do not enjoy being with; not on activities that are not compelling, necessary, or worthy. That time is brief. Because we are all under the same sentence, it ought to be easier easier to forgive each other. The one who has wronged us is not some all-powerful divinity who will outlast the ages, but, like each of us, a brief and ephemeral flash of life in a sea of roiling sameness. We ought to know that our identities are not simply that of solitary individual beings. We are part of something larger than ourselves... [We are always] in relationship, a component of that living organism called humanity, which itself is a component of the biosphere as a whole.  Everything is a manifestation of becoming-in-relationship Photo by Isaac Quesada (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Funsplash.com%2F%40isaacquesada%3Futm_source%3Dunsplash%26utm_medium%3Dreferral%26utm_content%3DcreditCopyText%26fbclid%3DIwAR0j-_HB_1x3HWMfbiwXYXOV_A8gUiqnez6kkHJW6ML0jbgePAav_B0fVmU&h=AT2kq1u5KgjAF3mf3ga5CbADmBeaVp5Yy9omP0AaCEDzn_FruCtZhGZoR3izCgwKXfxLAP96mUmCiSXDKfBeBE_gLRcrff4GkI2YgiH0ugaTAptHC4iuqeokKrTtCZciqKWv6iHq7pSxQ-jIp6BADLvPGcE) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/baby-old?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText&fbclid=IwAR0ABBlHX5AzyWYLTTNs4Lo7F5hsW8Glj6foXiEiR3dMPkEZvbvoyOEWOHE)

Aug 10

34 min

What if sadness isn't something to be avoided, but an opening, a doorway that we can step into? What if sadness could wake us up to what we most care about? And what if it could bring us into the orbit of others in a way that deepens our lives? Episode 148 of Turning Towards Life is a conversation about how we might treat our inevitable grief as a call, a question, a possibility - and about how we might do that with the support of others - with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen for us by Lizzie: THE GIFT OF SADNESS Sometimes sadness arrives as a messenger, to remind you of all the changes you still need to make in your life. Of all the risks you need to take but have been too afraid to. It creeps through you this sadness, offering up its painful gifts, whispering Truths that you do not wish to see or hear. Thank you very much. But sooner or later sadness will demand your full attention, making it too painful for you to try and stay asleep. It's so generous like that. Until finally one day you have no choice but to take a deep breath, get up from your knees and begin. To start facing the lies you’ve been telling and hiding behind. And feeling the heartbreaks and hurts you’ve been running from. To begin making new painful yet necessary choices for change in your life. Those that will make the difference between you existing or living. ‘ ‘Now’ whispers sadness...’wake up, the time is NOW’. So you take that first wobbly step into the unknown. And then from there, you take the next one. Sometimes deep sadness is the universe calling your name. Listen. Words by Donna Lancaster Photo by Catherine (https://unsplash.com/@hell0_cg_?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/loved?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Aug 2

37 min

Most of us were never taught to admit we don't know - and as a result we hold onto our positions and beliefs no matter what. Others of us learned early on that the most important thing we could do was get along with others, and so we routinely give up what we see or care about in order to avoid disagreement. At the heart of both positions is a kind of distrust - distrust that we can still take up our place in the world even if we're changed by our encounter with other people, or even if we have an opinion that matters to us. And at the heart of both is our fear that, if we let ourselves be fully in the conversation, we will no longer belong. Episode 147 of Turning Towards Life is a conversation about learning how to belong with one another even when we see things differently, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen for us by Justin. Willing to be Disturbed We weren't trained to admit we don't know. Most of us were taught to sound certain and confident, to state our opinion as if it were true. We haven't been rewarded for being confused. Or for asking more questions rather than giving quick answers. We've also spent many years listening to others mainly to determine if we agree with them or not... It's impossible for any two people to ever see things exactly the same... [And] to be curious about how someone else interprets things we have to be willing to admit we're not capable of figuring things out alone... When so many interpretations are available, I can't understand why we would be satisfied with superficial conversations where we pretend to agree with one another. What surprises and disturbs me [is] a very useful way to see [my] invisible beliefs. If what you say surprises me, I must have been assuming something else was true. If what you say disturbs me, I must believe something contrary to you. My shock at your position exposes my own position. When I hear myself saying "How could anyone believe something like that?" a light comes on for me to see my own beliefs. These moments are great gifts. Margaret Wheatley - from 'Turning To One Another' Photo by Artem Sapegin (https://unsplash.com/@sapegin?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/human-blue?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Jul 26

33 min

Life keeps calling us to uncover and act on all the parts of ourselves we've so far left out, but much of the time we resist the call. Too painful perhaps, too unfamiliar. Sometimes, though, we find ourselves stepping right into exactly that unfamiliarity and making discoveries about ourselves the open up a whole world... and sometimes we find ourselves being that for others. Both require us to give up on how we've known ourselves so far; to give up 'playing the game of identity' that has become familiar to us. A conversation about learning how to step more fully into life, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen for us by Lizzie, and is by Marion Woodman: Most of us are dragged towards wholeness. We do not understand the breakdown of what has gone before. We do not understand. We cling to the familiar, Refuse to make necessary sacrifices, Refuse to give up habitual lives, Resist our growth. We do not understand rebirth, Do not accept the initiation rites. Most of us are dragged Towards wholeness. by Marion Woodman Photo by Philippe D. (https://unsplash.com/@filip42?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/lighthouse?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Jul 19

34 min

Somewhere along the line, many of us learn that voicing our needs directly - asking people for what we want - is to invite ridicule, shame or otherwise ask to be hurt. Our learning to undo that - to find out what we really long for, and to give voice to it - is a necessary, difficult and life-giving path to taking up our full size and place in the world. And it's also absolutely necessary for a life of dignified, mutual relationships with others.  A conversation about discovering and speaking our truest longings to others - with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen for us by Justin, and is from Mark Nepo's  'The Book of Awakening' Photo by Aron Visuals (https://unsplash.com/@aronvisuals?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText&fbclid=IwAR3y-MsLM5dwVD86UUMrGW9d7tcecftCGsrHwQGDw9XQ48DvA2AuZ71wvr8) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/icecream?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText&fbclid=IwAR132eZAXf5ERiom22CP5yArHRbmtFrErzm8u9R3MTu3WHvbJzOOnrOJsKA)

Jul 12

31 min

When we treat the pain of our lives as a mistake, we cut something off that could be deeply life giving - for ourselves, for our families, for our wider society. When we treat the pain of our society as a mistake, we cut off many avenues for healing, understanding, and for addressing the difficulties that surround us. A conversation about learning, with one another's support, to handle life's difficulties well - to 'turn, know, and honour' them so that they can become a rich source of deepening, courage and repair in our lives - with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen for us by Justin. from A Poem for My Daughter by Teddy Macker (https://poets.org/poet/teddy-macker) It seems we have made pain some kind of mistake, like having it is somehow wrong. Don’t let them fool you— pain is a part of things. But remember, dear Ellie, the compost down in the field: if the rank and dank and dark are handled well, not merely discarded, but turned and known and honored, they one day come to beds of rich earth home even to the most delicate rose. ❖ God comes to you disguised as your life. Blessings often arrive as trouble. In French, the word blesser means to wound and relates to the Old English bletsian— to sprinkle with blood. And in Sanskrit there is a phrase, a phrase to carry with you wherever you go: sarvam annam: everything is food. Every last thing. Photo by Diego PH (https://unsplash.com/@jdiegoph?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/rose?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Jul 5

33 min

What happens when we confuse ourselves with just one part of ourselves – when we think we ‘are’ a particular way we’re feeling, a thought, the exam result I got… When we think we ‘are’ our job title, or our joblessness, our bank balance… In short, when we confuse ourselves with being ‘just one thing’. And how our forgetting our own variety in this way also has us forget and not see the richness, depth and intricate variety of others. A conversation about welcoming ourselves and other people in our inner and outer complexity, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is written for us by Lizzie. The Alchemy of Welcome Perceive problems and they will stay, See the gifts and find your way. Hold on tight and it will fall, Open your hand and receive it all. Turn away and the issue spirals, Face into life and the field enlivens. Stifle anger and it takes hold, Welcome the rage and find your bold. Ignore the sadness and wither so small, Accept the feelings and trust the call. Stay on the surface and miss the meaning, Go down deep and find love’s leaning. Tense yourself up and lose control, Relax into love and watch it unfold. Spinning around and to live is a labour, Stillness comes and you taste the flavour. Lizzie Winn Photo by Dimitar Belchev (https://unsplash.com/@belchev?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://turningtowards.life/?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Jun 28

35 min

A bonus episode describing and exploring the Thirdspace Professional Coaching Course in London, which this year is being offered as a completely on-line programme beginning September 2020.  In this special edition of 'Turning Towards Life' Lizzie and Justin talk about the Thirdspace Professional Coaching Course, offered this year as a completely on-line programme beginning September 2020 (offered in partnership with New Ventures West), a certification programme in integral development coaching which is at the heart of Thirdspace's work and a project of great joy and love for both of us.  This year we're offering the PCC as a completely on-line programme. Over the course of our conversation you'll hear what makes this special programme unique, how it changes participants and what it makes possible, the distinction between 'developmental' and other kinds of coaching, and more about the details and structure of the programme. You can read more about the programme on the Thirdspace website (https://audioboom.com/posts/7478045-bonus-the-thirdspace-professional-coaching-course-starts-september-2020/_wp_link_placeholder) . 

Jun 24

56 min

Life keeps on happening, and most of it happens whether we want it that way or not. Our ‘not wanting’ can easily lead us into pushing away life as it happens, and into exiling the parts of ourselves and others that we find to be unwelcome. But another way might be possible for each of us, a path we can practice that has us turning towards what happens with welcome. And this could be a way in which we find ourselves opening over the course of a life, rather than narrowing. A conversation about curiosity and welcoming all of it, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen for us by Justin. A Cedary Fragrance Even now, decades after, I wash my face with cold water – Not for discipline, nor memory, nor the icy, awakening slap, but to practice choosing to make the unwanted wanted. by Jane Hirshfield, from Given Sugar, Given Salt, 2001 Photo by lucas mendes (https://unsplash.com/@lucasmendesph?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText&fbclid=IwAR2Zb1vb1v0xcKUUuL0hRiY8PZyh9lk1cNag-JHn5LzSltw6tJkNHVDhbnE) on Unsplash (https://www.facebook.com/s/photos/face-washing?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Jun 21

38 min

Just beyond ourselves, just outside all the ways we’ve taken ourselves to be, just beyond our certainty and the familiar ways we know ourselves… Just here, beyond ourselves, something is calling all the time, something which we discover in our willingness to be affected by, to be changed by, the ‘other’ in other people and in the world. A conversation about the possibilities that come when we notice and drop our defences, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen by Lizzie. Just Beyond Yourself by David Whyte Listen Just beyond yourself. It’s where you need to be. Half a step into self-forgetting and the rest restored by what you’ll meet. There is a road always beckoning. When you see the two sides of it closing together at that far horizon and deep in the foundations of your own heart at exactly the same time, that’s how you know it’s the road you have to follow. That’s how you know it’s where you have to go. That’s how you know you have to go. That’s how you know. Just beyond yourself, it’s where you need to be. Photo by Joshua Earle on Unsplash

Jun 14

34 min

All the ways we try to protect ourselves from life by hardening our hearts, how this leads us to misunderstand love in ways that strangles the aliveness that's in ourselves and in others, and what we might do to exercise proper responsibility in how we care for each other. A conversation about our power to either recognise or smother the beauty in people, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is chosen by Lizzie. How to Kill a Living Thing Neglect it Criticise it to its face Say how it kills the light Traps all the rubbish Bores you with its green Continually Harden your heart Then Cut it down close To the root as possible Forget it For a week or a month Return with an axe Split it with one blow Insert a stone To keep the wound wide open. —Eibhlin Nic Eochaidh Photo by Wexor Tmg (https://unsplash.com/@wexor?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText&fbclid=IwAR3CM13Nq8r3bs2rQOP0o7NcGqTpVhP5S67H8r2LPyORjvXoyKW3TALr0S8) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/creature?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText&fbclid=IwAR1fvfqNQ1sBoBhJv0EPI-o7kCh14bA3q2cHnrfcZ4m-LsWNrNXc2bZMB48)

Jun 7

31 min

It's a necessary part of our growing up that we learn to get along in the culture into which we were born. But, on the way, we easily lose touch with what is most life-giving for us, and cover up our truer desires with a crowd of wants and needs that help us to fit in, or stand out, or keep a particular kind of image going. So much becomes possible when we start to strip away the cloud of distractions from our truer longings and start to find out what our hearts are really calling for. A conversation about the vulnerable, generous, courageous work of being clear about what we most desire, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is written the poet Rumi, translated and interpreted by Daniel Landinsky in his book ‘The Purity of Desire’, and chosen this week by Justin. No Conflict With Anything I Do God’s face gradually fades from the infant’s sight. If this did not happen, you would never be able to recognise and converse with the things you do. A soul’s blindness most always increases as the body grows, and certain hungers set in, and one’s attention is turned that way. Now that you have traveled so far and have seen so much, what is it you most prize? What pack horse does not feel relieved when its burden is lifted? Desires, narrowed down, can do the same, decrease the weight you carry, and unveil the wonder in the present. Just a single movement, a single impetus, I now have. This, there is no conflict with anything I do. What kind of man would ask his breath the reason for its actions? Less demanding, questioning, I now am of all I see. God’s face will gradually return to your perception. My words will help draw back the curtain from your eyes. Rumi Translated by Daniel Landinsky from The Purity of Desire Photo by Sharon McCutcheon (https://unsplash.com/@sharonmccutcheon?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/pure?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

May 31

39 min

It's so easy to suspend our lives... to in one way or another miss out on being here because we're waiting for conditions to be right, to become a better kind of person, until we're saved. We can even suspend our lives waiting until we feel like 'nothing is missing'. But what if even the feeling of 'something missing' is what's calling us to inhabit our lives just as they are? A conversation about letting ourselves actually be in our lives with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is written by Jeff Foster (https://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/) , and brought to us by Lizzie. The old chair is here, offering itself, whispering, "Come, sit down, rest, you are weary. See, I am here..." And the carpet that you've never really looked at before, never really valued before, because you've been so busy looking for enlightenment and salvation and love in the future - see how it just… lies here… offering itself fully to you, prostrate in your presence, whispering, “Come, lie, sit, stand, I ask nothing of you, I want nothing. I am here…." You didn't truly see the carpet because you wanted to get enlightened first. You wanted to be an enlightened person standing on the carpet! You were going to work on yourself for forty years, meditate your way to Nirvana, heal your traumas, perfect your ‘self’, transcend your ego, or wait until you were ‘ready’ before valuing the carpet, seeing the carpet, recognizing the carpet as a divine expression, and a tremendous gift. It was all a postponement, you see. It was all a movement away from ‘what is’, from the extraordinary sacredness of the ordinary. It was a displacement into a future that could never come... The carpet was always here. The chair was always here. Ready. Alive. Innocent. Waiting. Life was always here, offering itself, showing itself, calling you, beckoning you, to finally see it, inviting you to awaken, to come alive, to be a child of awareness. And yet, you've been so busy moving away, into a 'future', into a dream... Just take a moment. Any moment. This moment. And behold it in loving awareness, bathe it in your light. - Jeff Foster Photo by Sharon Christina Rørvik (https://unsplash.com/@sharon_christina?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/carpet-chair?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/rock?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText&fbclid=IwAR2HTTGy5Xw5D97hHS9qQDovkLvCgJuxwS2I3jIefKfE0tJ0rnYDvngHL-E)

May 24

37 min

How about we find a way to live without permanently being annoyed that things aren't just as we'd like them? Might that not be a path to some joy? Could we give up the way we exhaust ourselves (and often others!) by our attempts to push life around, to control it, to have things just our way? A conversation about creativity, relationship, what happens when we let ourselves fall into life, and giving up trying to herd cats, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is written by Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer (https://www.wordwoman.com/) , from her book 'Naked for Tea (https://www.wordwoman.com/books/naked-for-tea/) ', and brought to us by Justin. Perhaps it would eventually erode, but... Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer That rock that we have been pushing up the hill—that one that keeps rolling back down and we keep pushing back up—what if we stopped? We are not Sisyphus. This rock is not a punishment. It’s something we’ve chosen to push. Who knows why. I look at all the names we once carved into its sedimentary sides. How important I thought they were, those names. How I’ve clung to labels, who’s right, who’s wrong, how I’ve cared about who’s pushed harder and who’s been slack. Now all I want is to let the rock roll back to where it belongs, which is wherever it lands, and you and I could, imagine!, walk unencumbered, all the way to the top and walk and walk and never stop except to discover what our hands might do if for once they were no longer pushing. www.wordwoman.com (https://www.wordwoman.com/) Photo by Pablo Heimplatz (https://unsplash.com/@pabloheimplatz?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText&fbclid=IwAR3MUzHA6amXJzJNjEa3hKv2-5A-zz63sFfMKpbAvjcV2z7WxyrlS76PSs4) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/rock?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText&fbclid=IwAR2HTTGy5Xw5D97hHS9qQDovkLvCgJuxwS2I3jIefKfE0tJ0rnYDvngHL-E)

May 17

40 min

When big change comes upon us, we can at first devote a great deal of our hearts' energy to a fight with the change - which often does nothing to help us. But our hearts are equally capable of something else - a turn towards bigger questions, and to the possibility that the change might be inviting us into a deeper relationship with life. Hidden here might be 'the jewel at the heart of the stone'. A conversation about depth, intimacy with life, and the life-giving, difficult work of responding to change, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is written by Mark Nepo, and brought to us by Lizzie. Fighting The Instrument Often the instruments of change are not kind or just and the hardest openness of all might be to embrace the change while not wasting your heart fighting the instrument. The storm is not as important as the path it opens. The mistreatment in one life never as crucial as the clearing it makes in your heart. This is very difficult to accept. The hammer or cruel one is always short-lived compared to the jewel in the center of the stone. Mark Nepo Photo by Birgith Roosipuu (https://unsplash.com/@msbirgith?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/gemstone?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

May 10

35 min

How are we coming at life at this time? Are we careful? mindless? gentle with the things we are touching? Or careless, distracted, and in a self-important hurry at all costs? A conversation about paying attention to our lives, this week inspired by Amanda Palmer’s writing, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is written by Amanda Palmer (https://amandapalmer.net/home/) , and brought to us by Justin. How you do anything is how you do everything One of my favorite yoga teachers used to say: “how you do anything is how you do everything”. I feel like everyone I know is being given a surprise final exam in how to do anything (and everything) right now. I feel simultaneously completely upended and yet strangely more at peace than I have ever felt in my life. paying attention to how I change a sheet, how I cut an apple, how I schedule my few precious minutes of work and screen time and how I give my child a bath is all a reflection of all the everythings I’ve ever done; how I started a career, how I broke up with a boyfriend, how I dealt with a miscarriage. it’s all the same. how did I do it? was I careful? mindless? was I gentle with the things I was touching? or was I careless, distracted, and in a self-important hurry at all costs? slowing down is the hardest thing on earth because it forces you to face the scariest thing you will ever face: you. fare you all well…I love you all so so much. I know what so many of you are going through, and growing through. I am with you. Amanda Photo by Aarón Blanco Tejedor (https://unsplash.com/@healing_photographer?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/apple?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

May 3

40 min

There's a down-to-earthness about some people, an everydayness. When people are this way, there's no fear that they're putting on an act for you, that they may be different towards you when you are not there. And when each of us finds a way to be like this, we can be a profound welcome to one another. A conversation about ordinary, kind ways of being with one another, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is written by Melanie Lowndes, and brought to us by Lizzie. Bread and Butter People by Melanie Lowndes (edited by Lizzie for Turning Towards Life) She is the neighbour who is always pleased to see you, who years ago with her husband and kids had many animals. Her husband once stopped you on the way home and said, “Look what I've got - she doesn't know yet…” and proudly showed you a piglet which used to run to the door in the hall with it's wriggly tail wagging when you came in. She is the Welsh lady with the foreign surname who lives with her Indian homeopath husband and does B&B the old way, taking in guests who stay in the bedroom full of books and character and a little mess, and carefully cooks what you like for breakfast and dinner. He is the father of your ex who in latter years had greyhound dogs and you could escape the politeness of the house each evening to walk with him - and Hannah or Rose, him listening, ever a safe and un-judgmental receptacle of your disclosures. There is a safeness about bread and butter people, a consistency. Yes it's also Scottish Jean, who lost her husband after caring for him for many years and was in grief, and who had a gravelly smokey Glaswegian voice that could reduce you to tears with a question. There is a kindness about them, a down-to-earthness, an every-dayness, no glamour nor allure but something deeply nurturing; no eggshells around them. There’s no fear that they're putting on an act for you, that they may be different towards you when you are not there, no fear that what they show you is different to how they are to their core. This is the way they are: consistent - and you understand something about consistency now - it is not about always showing up the same way - it is about consistently showing up how you are, honestly, whether that be happy or sad, calm or troubled. I think of the times people have actually delivered. The mates that show up. The people who come back. Who care. Who check in. Who stay. Who make tea and stir in a little extra sweetness without making a fuss. The bread and butter people in our lives. The staple friendships. The kind dough that kneads our self esteem.

Apr 26

39 min

Why we're all trying to get loved, why our covering that up gets us into all kinds of trouble, and what can happen when we start to get honest with one another about what's going on. A conversation about loving people without condition, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is a beauty from the poet Hafiz, who lived in Persia in the 14th century, translated here by Daniel Landinsky. With That Moon Language Hafiz Admit something: Everyone you see, you say to them, “Love me.” Of course you do not do this out loud; Otherwise, Someone would call the cops. Still though, think about this, This great pull in us To connect. Why not become the one Who lives with a full moon in each eye That is always saying, With that sweet moon Language, What every other eye in this world Is dying to Hear. Photo by Amanda Dalbjörn (https://unsplash.com/@amandadalbjorn?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/eye?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Apr 19

38 min

What does it take to remain hopeful about life when we're entering into the dark? How can we be beacons of hope to one another as we travel through the more difficult passages of our lives? A conversation about faithfulness to one another's wholeness, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, chosen for us by Lizzie: The Unbroken by Rashani Réa There is a brokenness out of which comes the unbroken, a shatteredness out of which blooms the unshatterable. There is a sorrow beyond all grief which leads to joy and a fragility out of whose depths emerges strength. There is a hollow space too vast for words through which we pass with each loss, out of whose darkness we are sanctioned into being. There is a cry deeper than all sound whose serrated edges cut the heart as we break open to the place inside which is unbreakable and whole, while learning to sing. Find out more about Rashani Réa at rashani.com (http://rashani.com/) Photo by Luca Micheli (https://unsplash.com/@lucamicheli?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/hole?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Apr 12

34 min

The weeks of physical distancing we're in might, if we'll take it, give us an opportunity to develop a new relationship with time. What if time isn't a commodity to be consumed? And what would happen if we allow ourselves to encounter time as depth, or as play, or as presence, or as possibility? A conversation about giving up our frantic, fearful relationship with the finiteness of our time, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, written by Rob Poynton: How Long Will This Last? by Rob Poynton http://www.robertpoynton.com I wonder how long this is going to last. I imagine we all do. Which is understandable, but absurd. Not only do we have no idea, but being home for a few weeks (or months?) is the least of it. In some ways what is happening now will never leave us. It would be remarkable, disappointing even, if this experience didn’t change us, one way or another. The question reveals how we habitually think and talk about time in a limited way. As if it had no other dimension, depth or quality beyond a number of minutes, hours or days. As if all it had were length, which is actually just a metaphor, borrowed from the world of physical space. As if all units of time were equivalent, standardised, uniform. They aren’t. Time has the capacity to open up, deepen, expand or extend, even as the clock continues its regimented march. For example, on a Reading Weekend at La Serna, tech philosopher Tom Chatfield wrote: “Time is different here. It has been waiting for us. I remember time like this from when I was young: baggy, generous, ambling; then dashing at the pace of light and landscape”. Pauses do that. As we hunker down, constrained in space, perhaps we can create a different kind of freedom for ourselves by shifting our relationship with time? Instead of behaving like dutiful consumers, with no idea beyond counting and spending the days or weeks until this is over, can we play with it, explore it, savour it, sense it, feel it, or get lost in it? Perhaps if we pay less attention and attach less importance to duration, we might find this time has more to give us than we realised. You can find out more about Rob and 'The Pause Project' here. (https://www.robertpoynton.com/about-the-pause-project) Photo by KiPhoto by (https://unsplash.com/@kadh?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) Robert Anasch (https://unsplash.com/@diesektion?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/light-landscape?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Apr 5

34 min

Here in London we're coming the end of the first week of lockdown as the world responds to the coronavirus pandemic and, like millions of others across the globe, we're wondering together about what to make of this time. And there are choices about how to relate to the experience of confinement and physical distance - choices that are marked by our willingness to not add unnecessary suffering to our own and others' lives; choices that are shaped by our willingness to include both what's beautiful and what's frightening or grief-filled. A conversation about stepping with full hearts into constraint, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, written for us by Lizzie: The New Normal. The warm sun on my face, the cool breeze on my ankles. My babe asleep on my chest, her breath so gentle - like the smallest of waves on the shore. Thank you for surrendering to this, he says. Thank you for being willing to let this be enough. For now. We can suffer this, or we can let it become our normal. So we bake a cake. And I clean the door handles. And we have a cuppa tea. And cook dinner. We watch the baby girl sleeping. And say thank you. By Lizzie Winn Vesper’s Mummy Vesper is 22 weeks - March 24, 2020 Photo by Kira auf der Heide (https://unsplash.com/@kadh?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/tea?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Mar 29

33 min

Here in London, it's spring, and the blossom is emerging with its brightness and beauty. At the same time, we humans are living with an unfolding worldwide epidemic that threatens lives and livelihoods. Can we learn to live in these times in a way that opens us to both grief AND joy, to both fear AND our responsibility for one another? A conversation about the necessity and power of including and turning towards everything in these big times, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, chosen for us by Justin: Don’t Hesitate If you suddenly and unexpectedly feel joy, don’t hesitate. Give in to it. There are plenty of lives and whole towns destroyed or about to be. We are not wise, and not very often kind. And much can never be redeemed. Still, life has some possibility left. Perhaps this is its way of fighting back, that sometimes something happens better than all the riches or power in the world. It could be anything, but very likely you notice it in the instant when love begins. Anyway, that’s often the case. Anyway, whatever it is, don’t be afraid of its plenty. Joy is not made to be a crumb. –Mary Oliver Photo by Larisa Birta (https://unsplash.com/@larisabirta?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/magnolia?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Mar 22

37 min

In many parts of the world, as we recorded this conversation, we're having to take up practices of physical separation from one another in order to keep each other safe. But there are ways, even when we are physically distant, that we can come into a deeper, more full contact with one another than we might usually experience, and such contact with one another's depth is also a return to ourselves. A conversation about living and relating to others and ourselves in a loving, receptive, contactful way, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, chosen for us by Lizzie: The Affliction by Marie Howe www.mariehowe.com (https://www.mariehowe.com/) When I walked across a room I saw myself walking as if I were someone else, when I picked up a fork, when I pulled off a dress, as if I were in a movie. It’s what I thought you saw when you looked at me. So when I looked at you, I didn’t see you I saw the me I thought you saw, as if I were someone else. I called that outside—watching. Well I didn’t call it anything when it happened all the time. But one morning after I stopped the pills—standing in the kitchen for one second I was inside looking out. Then I popped back outside. And saw myself looking. Would it happen again? It did, a few days later. My friend Wendy was pulling on her winter coat, standing by the kitchen door and suddenly I was inside and I saw her. I looked out from my own eyes and I saw: her eyes: blue gray transparent and inside them: Wendy herself! Then I was outside again, and Wendy was saying, Bye-bye, see you soon, as if Nothing Had Happened. She hadn’t noticed. She hadn’t known that I’d Been There for Maybe 40 Seconds, and that then I was Gone. She hadn’t noticed that I Hadn’t Been There for Months, years, the entire time she’d known me. I needn’t have been embarrassed to have been there for those seconds; she had not Noticed The Difference. This happened on and off for weeks, and then I was looking at my old friend John: : suddenly I was in: and I saw him, and he: (and this was almost unbearable) he saw me see him, and I saw him see me. He said something like, You’re going to be ok now, or, It’s been difficult hasn’t it, but what he said mattered only a little. We met—in our mutual gaze—in between a third place I’d not yet been. Photo by Warren Wong (https://unsplash.com/@wflwong?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Mar 15

36 min

How can we face uncertainty in a way that brings us into closer contact with our courage, openness and compassion for one another? Can we find a way, when we feel squeezed, to not withdraw into ourselves in fear? And is there a life-giving, truth-bringing way of turning towards our inescapable vulnerability? A conversation about turning towards one another for support in an uncertain time, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, chosen for us by Justin: VULNERABILITY is not a weakness, a passing indisposition, or something we can arrange to do without, vulnerability is not a choice , vulnerability is the underlying, ever present and abiding under-current of our natural state. To run from vulnerability is to run from the essence of our nature, the attempt to be invulnerable is the vain attempt to be something we are not and most especially, to close off our understanding of the grief of others. More seriously, refusing our vulnerability we refuse the help needed at every turn of our existence and immobilise the essential, tidal and conversational foundations of our identity. To have a temporary, isolated sense of power over all events and circumstances, is one of the privileges and the prime conceits of being human and especially of being youthfully human, but a privilege that must be surrendered with that same youth, with ill health, with accident, with the loss of loved ones who do not share our untouchable powers; powers eventually and most emphatically given up, as we approach our last breath. The only choice we have as we mature is how we inhabit our vulnerability, how we become larger and more courageous and more compassionate through our intimacy with disappearance, our choice is to inhabit vulnerability as generous citizens of loss, robustly and fully, or conversely, as misers and complainers, reluctant, and fearful, always at the gates of existence, but never bravely and completely attempting to enter, never wanting to risk ourselves, never walking fully through the door. David Whyte, from 'Consolations: The Solace, Nourishment and Underlying Meaning of Everyday Words (https://amzn.to/32YyuZQ) ' Photo by David Watkis (https://unsplash.com/@david_watkis?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/sky?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Mar 8

38 min

"Perhaps," Lizzie says, "even our reactivity is a way to come home." One part of us is a reactive self, a way in which we get triggered and gripped by our certainties about ourselves and one another. Another, more essential part, is a kind of depth and openness in which we can meet the world - and have the world meet us - with more depth and openness in return. When we're gripped by our reactivity, our depth and wholeness are still present, and our learning to turn towards them can be a potent and life-giving path for meeting life more fully.  And our reactivity, if we'll notice it, can be the sign that it's time to turn back towards home. A conversation about the ways in which it's never too late to turn things around, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, chosen for us by Lizzie: The ancient sense of transformation assumes that there is something essential within us that we can turn to and learn from; that we can draw upon repeatedly and grow from continuously. Besides involving a change in consciousness, such a deep inner change also includes a process of self-healing that can occur in moments of wholeness arising from the source of the deep self and soul within us. The old reason for not giving up on someone, even if they have failed repeatedly, is because a genuine turnaround in life is possible at any time and at any age. Because such moments are timeless, when it comes to waking up and turning things around, it is never too late. Michael Meade, from 'Awakening the Soul' Photo by Sebastián León Prado (https://unsplash.com/@elmundoderabbit?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/late?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Mar 1

34 min

It's so easy to be in a fight with our lives, as if there's a way we can win out over our fear, or grief, or some other experience we're wishing not to have. But often trying to win out leaves us small, and exhausted, and rigid. What if we were to take up a different relationship with what's happening, in which we know our experiences not as something to get away from but a way in which life is flowing through us? And what if instead of trying to fight things off we allowed ourselves to soften and flex enough to be changed by them as they pass through? A conversation about the life-giving possibilities of surrender, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, chosen for us by Justin: The Man Watching I can tell by the way the trees beat, after so many dull days, on my worried windowpanes that a storm is coming, and I hear the far-off fields say things I can't bear without a friend, I can't love without a sister The storm, the shifter of shapes, drives on across the woods and across time, and the world looks as if it had no age: the landscape like a line in the psalm book, is seriousness and weight and eternity. What we choose to fight is so tiny! What fights us is so great! If only we would let ourselves be dominated as things do by some immense storm, we would become strong too, and not need names. When we win it's with small things, and the triumph itself makes us small. What is extraordinary and eternal does not want to be bent by us. I mean the Angel who appeared to the wrestlers of the Old Testament: when the wrestler's sinews grew long like metal strings, he felt them under his fingers like chords of deep music. Whoever was beaten by this Angel (who often simply declined the fight) went away proud and strengthened and great from that harsh hand, that kneaded him as if to change his shape. Winning does not tempt that man. This is how he grows: by being defeated, decisively, by constantly greater beings. Rainer Maria Rilke – Translated by Robert Bly Photo by Widdowquin on Flickr

Feb 23

34 min

The discipline of regular practice can look like a painful constraint but - as Lizzie says in this week's conversation - when we approach practice with intention and kindness it can bring us an extraordinary freedom from our habits, preferences, and ways of going to sleep to our lives. A conversation about the gifts of enabling constraints that we choose for ourselves, and the ways in which practice can help us bring our goodness to others, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . You can find our source for this week here (https://turningtowards.life/2020/02/16/the-freedom-in-discipline-episode-124/) . Photo by Farsai Chaikulngamdee (https://unsplash.com/@clearsky?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/yoga?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Feb 16

33 min

What happens when we meet the parts of ourselves we've kept out of view, and let them dance with the parts that we're more comfortable showing other people? What happens when we're willing to welcome the parts in others we usually try to push away? And what creativity and possibility open when we give up trying to control one another so that instead we can meet one another fully? A conversation about the gifts of finding 'the other' in ourselves, and ourselves in the other, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week: Advice by Bill Holm Someone dancing inside us       has learned only a few steps: the "Do-Your-Work" in 4/4 time,         the "What-Do-You-Expect" Waltz. He hasn't noticed yet the woman         standing away from the lamp. The one with black eyes         who knows the rumba and strange steps in jumpy rhythms         from the mountains of Bulgaria. If they dance together,         something unexpected will happen; if they don't, the next world         will be a lot like this one. Photo by Ardian Lumi (https://unsplash.com/@ardianlumi?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/dancing?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Feb 9

30 min

When we're in the midst of giant changes - the birth of a new child, the death of someone we love, or any other changes that life brings us - it's tempting to try and get life back to 'the way it has been'. Indeed, we often actively encourage the people around us to do exactly that. 'You'll soon be back to your old self', we say. But what if we could see that life's changes will change us however much we resist? And what if, instead of fearfully trying to hold on to the way we've known ourselves, we could actively allow ourselves to be changed by what's happening? A conversation about coming at life's openings with as much love as we can muster, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, written by Lizzie Winn: The way I love you. I wish that you know your beauty because of how I look at you. I wish for you to feel how you are loved because of how I hold you. I wish for you to sense how safe you are by how I cradle you to sleep. If I could return the gift to you that you bestow on me as you smile. I would be a happy mummy. Your whole face lights up and my body does the same. As you sleep peacefully, your trust smashes me to smithereens. Most nights as you drift off I cry because of my aching heart and how I no longer know who I am and I am glad for it. Because of you I am dissolved. Nothing makes much sense any more. What is anything even for now you’re here? Who am I supposed to be and how do I live here now you are alive and breaking me open with each small change? When you bring to me the worst of you, I will try and find the best of me, Even if it bends me out of shape and turns me into someone I don’t recognise, Even if it goes against all that’s acceptable in our normal world. By Lizzie Winn about Vesper Winn Photo by Joshua Reddekopp (https://unsplash.com/@joshuaryanphoto?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/baby?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Feb 2

37 min

It may be hard to see, but how we listen greatly shapes what it is possible for other people to say to us. Can we catch on to all the ways we’re trying to control what we experience as we listen, and as we do so drop our need to control so that we can be a profound welcome to others? A conversation about the ways in which we share ourselves with one another, and about how we can receive with openness, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . You can find our source for this week here (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-n4) . Photo by Alex Holyoake (https://unsplash.com/@stairhopper?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/tell?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Jan 26

35 min

What if we could learn to behold one another's wholeness, rather than focussing so narrowly on the aspects of others that we fear or desire? To trust in one another's vastness and depth instead of relating to one another from defensiveness or a desire to control? It would, for sure, give us a way to know one another with a greater kindness and a greater truthfulness than we do now. Can you imagine how it would be to greet one another - partners, children, friends, colleagues - that way? A conversation about trust, welcome and truthfulness, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, which was written specially for us by our friend and colleague Neena Sims (https://www.wearethirdspace.org/janeena-sims) , in response to our conversation in Episode 119. Safe and Sound Have you noticed how you and I can be around our young ones? How we look at saplings, at puppies, at babies? No, that’s not quite right, we don’t look, we behold I wonder, would you please behold me that way – just for a while? Better still for a lifetime I don’t mean the cooing or the smiling or the way you might tickle me and tell me I’m delicious - delightful as that can be I’m talking about the infinite ways you can bring yourself, all of yourself, to all of me The way you know that I’m whole - safe and sound - just as I am The way you know that I’m still growing, a forever unfinished body of hope The way you can be with my sadness, my rages, my strokes of genius The way you respond to my small-minded, hidden acts of malice and my colossal acts of kindness with ferocious, truthful lightness The way you land us both safe on the side of trusting that this both is - and isn’t - my whole story I think you do all of this out of faith – am I right? Faith in me Faith that, like a holy hologram, the whole is here in every part Faith in the ragged becoming that I am But you must also do it out of faith in yourself – am I right? Faith that you can greet whatever is here and welcome all that is yet to come Faith in the ragged becoming that you are too Have you noticed how you and I can be around our young ones? How we look at saplings, at puppies, at babies? No, that’s not quite right, we don’t look, we behold And have you noticed how they behold us too? A small, potent, goodness-seeking missile to the heart I’m not sure which comes first? Perhaps there isn’t a first, only an in-between You’re safe and I’m sound You’re sound and I’m safe Something like that Neena Sims, January 2020 Photo by Liv Bruce (https://unsplash.com/@livvie_bruce?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/gaze-baby?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Jan 19

32 min

What if we knew ourselves as made up of many parts, as opposed to being a single ‘I’? Could we find a new way to relate to the parts that are afraid, hurt, resentful or ashamed? A way that at once treated them with great respect while remembering that there are always other parts which might yet have a voice?. A conversation about the ways we exile aspects of ourselves, and the possibility of taking the wholeness of ourselves into account, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week, which is written by Justin: Facing the losses, together There is a part of me that is tender, grieving and terrified of loss. ‘You’ll leave me’, he says, ‘all of you’ – friends, lovers, family, teachers, life itself. And he means me, too – the one of whom he is a part, the one who is his home. He has sophisticated strategies to try to head off the losses he fears. He wants me to feel afraid, always, so that we won’t make a mis-step which causes others to leave. He’d rather I punish myself if it will get people to stay. He holds on very tight, and sometimes as a result I hold on very tight too. He’s masterful at getting abandonment in first, finding ways for me to get resentful and abandon other people before they can abandon me. I have done this many times in his name. In a way, he feels satisfied when people do actually leave, because it shows that his world view, and his deep fear, are justified. Over time I have come to see that my work is first the work of self-remembering. Remembering that I am vast and multifold. That as well as this part, there are many others. That there are things to feel that are different to what he is feeling. That it is, secondly, to turn towards the inevitable losses that he so fears. Because none of his strategies will save us. And that it is mostly the work of not running from him, not visiting upon him the very abandonment that he fears – but holding him close, cradling him, honouring him. It is my work to welcome him home. To say, “Yes, I see you. I have you. You are safe here. You cannot fall. We can face life – life as it actually is – with all the losses we cannot escape, together”. It is in this welcome that I am freed: to love in the way I want to love, to create, speak out, be vulnerable and intimate and angry and truthful and real, and to risk the risks that are required to be fully alive, the very risks that he is too afraid for me to take. Justin Wise, from ‘On Living and Working (http://www.justinwise.co.uk/) ‘ Photo by OC Gonzalez (https://unsplash.com/@ocvisual?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/man-child?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Jan 12

34 min

What does it take to really understand one another, especially when what separates us can seem so great? What if it takes a bold act of unselfishness - setting aside our ordinary, rigid ways of listening and being prepared to encounter the unknown while simultaneously doing all we can to make it safe for the person speaking to speak? A conversation about a wild, courageous way to listen to friends, lovers, family, colleagues and those with whom we disagree most profoundly, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week: The Art of Unselfish Understanding Drawing on his half-century practice as a therapist, Erich Fromm offers six  guidelines for mastering the art of unselfish understanding: 1. The basic rule for practicing this art is the complete concentration of the listener. 2. Nothing of importance must be on his mind, he must be optimally free from anxiety as well as from greed. 3. He must possess a freely-working imagination which is sufficiently concrete to be expressed in words. 4. He must be endowed with a capacity for empathy with another person and strong enough to feel the experience of the other as if it were his own. 5. The condition for such empathy is a crucial facet of the capacity for love. To understand another means to love him — not in the erotic sense but in the sense of reaching out to him and of overcoming the fear of losing oneself. 6. Understanding and loving are inseparable. If they are separate, it is a cerebral process and the door to essential understanding remains closed. Photo by Wiebrig Krakau (https://unsplash.com/@wiebrigkrakau?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/people-bench?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Jan 4

29 min

When we learn to relax our defensiveness, when we become less anxious to protect our borders – when we find ourselves surrendering to life – we become more loving, we regain our integrity and our dignity, and we have a much better chance of both receiving our lives and contributing to them. A conversation about the ways we separate ourselves from life and how we might return, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is here (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-mt) . Photo by pixpoetry (https://unsplash.com/@blackpoetry?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/sunlight?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Dec 2019

31 min

Receiving our lives – actually allowing ourselves to inhabit, touch and be affected by the one life we’re in the middle of living – can be difficult for many of us. We have so many ways of spinning off into fear, or numbness, or distraction. But there are ways we can bring ourselves back into the fierce loving presence of life. A conversation about opening to what’s here, allowing ourselves to be touched deeply by life, and wild swimming, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Our source for this week is here (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-ml) . Photo by Vincent van Zalinge on Unsplash

Dec 2019

33 min

When life is dark or frightening, or when we feel stretched beyond our ordinary abilities, it's often our willingness to learn from others that can restore our capacity to respond. Other people, if we'll let them, can often give us the gift of another way of coming at life and, in particular, the gift of practices that can invite in us an entirely new orientation to the circumstances we find ourselves in. Can you imagine, for example, what it would be like to sing with people with whom we're in difficulty, before we tried to speak? A conversation about undoing our habits and finding ways of making light in the darkness together, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life/) . Here's our source for this week:  Agenda in a time of fear: Be not afraid. When things go wrong, do right. Set out by the half-light of the seeker. For the well-lit problem begins to heal. Learn tropism toward the difficult. We have not arrived to explain, but to sing. Young idealism ripens into an ethical life. Prune back regret to let faith grow. When you hit rock bottom, dig farther down. Grief is the seed of singing, shame the seed of song. Keep seeing what you are not saying. Plunder your reticence. Songbird guards a twig, its only weapon a song. by Kim Stafford Photo by Ray Hennessy (https://unsplash.com/@rayhennessy?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/songbird?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Dec 2019

35 min

'Light' and 'Dark' are both names, ways in which we can observe and respond to what's happening within us and around us. Our refusal to name can feel protective but in the end it isolates ourselves from one another and from life. Learning to name well can be a living bridge between us - a way of entering into conversations, understanding and action that would be unavailable to us if we turned away. Naming things is not where it ends, but where our turning towards life begins. A conversation about the names that can help us enter into relationship and into life, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/turningtowardslife/) to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website (http://turningtowards.life) . Here's our source for this week:  “We can name the darkness as darkness and the Light as light and this helps us learn how to live and work in the Light so that the darkness does not overcome us. If we have a pie-in-the-sky, everything is beautiful attitude, we are going to be trapped by the darkness because we don’t see clearly enough to separate the wheat from the chaff. Conversely, if we can only see the darkness and forget the more foundational Light, we will be destroyed by our own negativity and fanaticism, or we will naively think we are completely apart and above the darkness. Instead, we must wait and work with hope inside of the darkness, even our own.” Richard Rohr 

Dec 2019

33 min

Nachman of Bratslav, the precariousness of all of our lives, and the possibility that we might learn to give up amplifying our fear - indeed that we might find a way to walk through an inevitably risky life with joy. A conversation about faithfulness to our lives, practice, why joy isn't the same as happiness, and what becomes possible when we live as if we're all in this together, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. We have a choice. Will we make attempts to avoid our situation by avoiding our lives? Or could we learn, even when we feel afraid, not to feed our fear? Could we live a life in which we intentionally practice taking a step into the fierce uncertainty of life, and then another step and another step, trusting that each step will take us, who knows where, but somewhere? This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org/) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find the source text for this conversation, as well as more information about the Turning Towards Life project, on our website (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-m7) . Photo by Tim Trad (https://unsplash.com/@timtrad?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/suspension?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Dec 2019

36 min

The culture we live in encourages us to live at a distance from ourselves. Many of us consequently live a life of frantic doing, as if the next project or achievement will be what saves us. Our living far from ourselves is often fuelled by intense self-criticism. But it's never too late to find out that underneath all our activity, life itself is always waiting to welcome us and that, in allowing ourselves to be welcomed, we can find ourselves deeply held. A conversation about returning, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace (http://www.wearethirdspace.org) in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find the source text for this conversation, as well as more information about the Turning Towards Life project, on our website (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-m2) . Photo by frank mckenna (https://unsplash.com/@frankiefoto?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Nov 2019

32 min

Our lives can easily become an anxiety-fuelled rush of activity. But when we live this way - even when our packing every moment seems filled with excitement and promise - we easily smother our own creativity, learning, and the chance to be in meaningful contact with others. So how can we learn to live our lives in a way that gives more space for life itself to come through? A conversation about fear, love and allowing ourselves to be reached by what's beyond us, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find the source text for this conversation, as well as more information about the Turning Towards Life project, on our website (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-lU) . Photo by Spencer Russell (https://unsplash.com/@spencerrussell?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/bonfire?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Nov 2019

33 min

How might we approach life's inevitable interruptions and openings - the often unexpected events that change things, perhaps without our say-so? Can we find a way that opens us and changes us, rather than coming at life's inevitability with fear and resentment? A conversation about finding a way to keep faith with our changing lives, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find the source text for this week on the Turning Towards Life website (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-lP) . Photo by Kenny Luo (https://unsplash.com/@kennyluoping?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/gold?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Nov 2019

36 min

How might we learn to relax our annoyance, to treat what irritates us as if it were the weather rather than something personal, and in so doing take our defensive reactivity down a step? A conversation about blame, kindness, and finding a way to be contactful with our experience, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. So much of our annoyance and irritation comes from our certainty that what's happening is happening 'to me'. As is if we walk around the world super-sensitive to the way everything is aimed in our direction. But when we look more closely at the anatomy of our annoyance, sometimes we start to see that what's annoying us is often not 'what's happening' but our own relationship to it, and that there's a way we judge ourselves and others that adds to our difficulties. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. You can find the source text for this week on the Turning Towards Life website (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-lG) . Photo by Erik Odiin (https://unsplash.com/@odiin?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/radiator?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Nov 2019

35 min

We need to draw the people we love nearer, smell their hair, enjoy them, drink them in. We need to let our hearts burst open with all the love. And experience the simplicity and sacredness of things. Even if we can only do it for one moment a day. It's the hard way but it's the only way. A conversation about vulnerability, and how love, fear and grief are inevitable partners, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. This is Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. The source that starts our conversation off this week is 'What we're really scared of: the love, beauty and sacredness of it all' by Hollie Holden. You can find it, all our other episodes on the Turning Towards Life website (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-lB) .

Oct 2019

30 min

Sometimes we try to be too big, imagining we should have super-human powers of control over the inevitable difficulties that face us. Other times we make ourselves too small, as if we have no choice at all. How might we turn back towards our lives by right-sizing ourselves? A conversation about breath, feeling life course through us, and facing the world with grace, with Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Here’s Episode 107 of Turning Towards Life, a weekly live 30 minute conversation hosted by Thirdspace in which Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn dive deep into big questions of human living. Find us on FaceBook to watch live and join in the lively conversation on this episode. We’re also on YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Google and Spotify. The source that starts our conversation off this week is 'The Cure For It All' by Julia Fehrenbacher. You can find it, all our other episodes, and more information about Julia's work on the Turning Towards Life website (https://wp.me/p4Tynu-lj) . Photo by Alex Bertha (https://unsplash.com/@alexbertha?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/sit?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText)

Oct 2019

34 min

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