Lunch Hour Legal Marketing

Legal Talk Network

Hosted by digital marketers Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam, Lunch Hour Legal Marketing is jam packed with tips and tricks for attracting more clients and business to your legal practice. Tune in twice a month for expert advice to turbocharge your firm’s ability to generate cash money.

Introducing the New Lunch Hour Legal Marketing
Trailer 3 min 25 sec

All Episodes

How important are online reviews, and what can you do about them? Guest Eric Goldman, legal scholar and expert, explains the intersection of Section 230 and the ethics of online reviews. Tune in next time for part 2 of the conversation. And Thanksgiving is a time to remind your clients you appreciate them. In a segment dubbed “Crappy Holiday Promotions,” Conrad and Gyi share thoughts on holiday season communications. Why share the same stock photo and silly platitudes? Get a jump on the season before Thanksgiving and tell clients how thankful you are for them.  And, as always, the guys break down the most important news in legal marketing.   Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LawYaw, and Clio.  Mentioned in This Episode: Regulation of Lawyers’ Use of Competitive Keyword Advertising by Eric Goldman and Angel Reyes An Overview of the United States’ Section 230 Internet Immunity by Eric Goldman Previous Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, with guest Carolyn Elefant Blog: FindLaw WordPress Websites: A Cynical Middle Finger to Their Clients Google Core Updates Clio Legal Trends 2021 Report Scorpion acquires MediaSmack Smokeball-InfoTrack acquires LawLytics Google My Business Section 230, text

Nov 24

32 min 23 sec

If it seems like Google favors big firms – with big dollars – over small or solo legal practices, that’s because it does. With an eye on Google My Business (“GMB”) practices, the guys examine a retro approach to marketing that may end-run Google dominance.  Guest Carolyn Elefant joins Conrad and Gyi to talk about getting back to basics: rethinking billing practices, and how networking and focusing on “community” instead of “audience” may be a more efficient way to attract clients. Also, Clio’s new Legal Trends Report is hot off the presses and they’re showing a spike in consumer interest in remote legal services and electronic payments. But that’s not all that’s changing. Are you keeping up?   Sponsor music provided by SoundStripe: Got Me Like by Dr. Delight   Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LawYaw, and Clio.   

Nov 10

33 min 48 sec

It's a special bonus episode. Recently, Conrad appeared on the long running program Lawyer 2 Lawyer and he had loads of fun, so we decided to run it for you here. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe to Lawyer 2 Lawyer. --------- Many attorneys have received an offer of an award recognizing them as a distinguished lawyer in your city or state. Perhaps the message, coming as an email or a message on Facebook, offers a custom plaque, an inscribed crystal, and/or an appearance in a publication, and all for the low, low price of the membership fees to the awarding organization. Who would ever pass up such a rare opportunity? So are we looking at a pay-to-play here? A scam? What is the application process? And should lawyers beware?! On Lawyer 2 Lawyer, host Craig Williams is joined by Conrad Saam, founder of Mockingbird Marketing, to talk about the award industry, the constraints for legal marketing, and what lawyers should do if they receive a solicitation promising an award for a price.

Nov 3

30 min 57 sec

In a special Halloween edition, Conrad and Gyi share their top 10 legal marketing horror stories. Are you dragging your practice to an early grave with some of these? Long-term marketing agency contracts? Renting instead of owning your website and domain name? Misunderstanding web traffic data and metrics? Or––dun dun duh––Letting Phone Calls Go Unanswered (even if you think you’ve hired a reputable service)? Scary stuff.  Plus, in the news, trends in legal mergers and acquisitions, the upcoming Clio Cloud Conference, and some frightening survey data about offering clients discounts and devaluing your practice.  Watch this channel next week for a special bonus Lawyer 2 Lawyer episode featuring our very own Conrad Saam. But there’s no need to wait! Click here to find all the great content from Lawyer 2 Lawyer. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LawYaw, and Clio.

Oct 27

36 min 8 sec

Conrad and Gyi take on the elephant in the courtroom. Clio’s Legal Trend Report shows us potential clients are interested in both pricing and payment plans, but as lawyers, we’re reluctant to go there. Why?  Explore options on how you can better position yourself. Are you less expensive than the competition? More efficient? A better value? Dig into the marketing opportunities that make you special based, in part, on your pricing model. Hey, the other guy is doing it. If it’s something you’ve never considered, it’s probably time you did.  And in the news (maybe related, just a bit!) we’re seeing a spike in inflation, even if the Fed wants to call it transitory. Look around, everything seems to be going up … except legal fees? Plus, Facebook (and its global apps) go down. In legal tech, what’s up with Smokeball legal matter management? Changes in Google marketing? Let’s talk.  Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LawYaw, and Clio. Mentioned in this Episode: Clio Legal Trends Report: Smokeball: Google changes: and Facebook ad revenue damage due to down time Thumbtack: Yelp: ​​ Hello Divorce,   Erin Levine podcast: Pricing Podcast with George Psiharis:

Oct 13

31 min 44 sec

Erin Levine, founder of Hello Divorce, joins Conrad and Gyi to explain how her innovative tech platform streamlines and demystifies the divorce process for clients while allowing lawyers to practice law – not schedule appointments, manage clients, and waste time with administrative tasks.  Entrusting basic drafting, scheduling, and filing work to a robot, though, does have one obvious conclusion––fewer tasks to bill for. But if you’re worried about your bottom line, don’t freak out just yet. Levine says Hello Divorce isn’t built to put you out of business but, by allowing clients to only use lawyers for what they need, to open up a broader pool of paying clients and improve the process as a whole.  Hello Divorce and services like it may be harbingers of the future legal industry, so it’s time for you, dear lawyer, to start thinking about how to adapt your practice and messaging to fit in. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LawYaw, and Clio.

Sep 22

46 min 8 sec

We know you’re a lawyer, so what? That’s not enough. What makes you stand out? Gyi and Conrad share tips on making your practice stand out in a country awash in lawyers. Know the difference between simple branding and real positioning.  Also, a BIG change is coming to Google searches. It’s driving SEO specialists nuts. Plus, new findings from Clio show the importance of marketing your tech capabilities in a post-pandemic world. What are prospective clients looking for? Learn more at  And of course, “Dumb Sh*t Lawyers Do” (like, say … not reading their marketing agency contracts).  Need to bone up on your marketing basics? Check out our prior LHLM 101 episode on Pay-Per-Click. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LawYaw, and Clio.

Sep 8

36 min 8 sec

Pop quiz: Which LHLM hosts earned early paychecks running a paper route, and which pumped gas? Gyi and Conrad discuss their early forays into working life. Then, Gyi and Conrad then wade into the dispute between the North Carolina Bar Association and Google over Google’s recording of phone calls related to ad leads. In the recurring segment, “Dear State Bar Regulators,” Gyi lists the pros and cons of recording, third-party access, legal ethics, solutions, and the gap between tech advances and bar rules. On the topic of bar rules, Arizona’s decision last year to invite non-lawyer ownership has attracted an application from the behemoth un-law firm Legal Zoom. Conrad explains the model in terms of MBAs running medical practices that hire doctors. He and Gyi discuss how Legal Zoom might operate, ID impacted practices, and how lawyers can compete. Listen for instructions on how to get half off of the ongoing Bedlam Conference. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LawYaw and Clio.

Aug 25

30 min 25 sec

As venture capital investment continues to sweep the legal market (and our news segment), Gyi and Conrad celebrate the $2 million seed round funding for Hello Divorce. Yay! In the segment, “Dumb Sh*t Lawyers Do,” the two discuss the case of a lawyer reprimanded for raking an unhappy client over the coals. They also discuss a Streisand Effect case in which a roofing company sued a couple because of their negative online review. The guys share their tips for responding to unflattering reviews and navigating these perilous waters.  And to wrap things up, the pandemic has undoubtedly knocked back law firms onto their heels. But, how have lawyers who continued their marketing investment fared? Should you batten down the hatches and rely solely on organic traffic? Do you need to start doing Tik Tok dances? The data may surprise you. Gyi and Conrad break it down and look ahead to the uncertain future. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LawYaw and Clio.

Aug 11

29 min 29 sec

Providing remarkable service is a no-brainer when it comes to earning a steady stream of referrals. It’s so basic that Gyi and Conrad aren’t even counting it in their lists of ways to get referrals. So what other methods are you probably overlooking? For one: give referrals. No one said it better than Paul McCartney in a classic SNL interview with Chris Farley, “The more you give, the more you get.” Getting clients in the door through referrals is great, but how do you budget for your marketing efforts? Whether a firm wants to take over Texas or just keep the lights on, Gyi and Conrad discuss why successful firms dedicate a portion (and how much) of their revenue towards marketing efforts. They also compare/contrast marketing effort and marketing infrastructure. Think gas v. engine. Listen to the end, and grab your popcorn, for Gyi and Conrad’s pop culture recommendations. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LexisNexis® InterAction®, LawYaw and Clio.

Jul 28

33 min 24 sec

Professors Gyi and Conrad teach us about the ABCs of CPCs, then appeal to bar leaders to revisit anti-competitive ad rules. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LexisNexis® InterAction®, LawYaw and Clio.

Jul 14

41 min 55 sec

Gyi and Conrad reassure that the sky isn’t falling despite the latest SEO panic and explore pricing controversies with F.O.P. George Psiharis. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LexisNexis® InterAction®, LawYaw and Clio.

Jun 23

44 min 47 sec

Gyi and Conrad cherry-pick tips from the Bedlam legal marketing conference, cover Apple’s privacy push, and talk the dos and definite don’ts when recognizing holidays. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LexisNexis® InterAction®, LawYaw and Clio.

Jun 9

32 min 9 sec

Gyi and Conrad preview their Bedlam legal marketing conference and talk through the dos and don’ts of responding to one-star reviews. Special thanks to our sponsors Alert Communications, LexisNexis® InterAction®, LawYaw and Clio.

May 24

36 min 35 sec

Gyi and Conrad count down the top five metrics law firms need to care about most/least. Special thanks to our sponsor Alert Communications, LexisNexis® InterAction®, LawYaw and Clio.

May 12

42 min 45 sec

Gyi and Conrad hash out the controversy over ‘conversions’ and debate the merits of fast, cheap, and quality. Special thanks to our sponsor Alert Communications, LexisNexis® InterAction®, LawYaw and Clio.

Apr 14

46 min 46 sec

Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam preview a robust marketing track at ABA Techshow and explain why to say no to FOMO marketing. Join the conversation on Twitter with @GyiTsakalakis and @ConradSaam using the hashtag #LHLM Special thanks to our sponsor Alert Communications, LexisNexis® InterAction®, LawYaw and Clio.

Mar 8

40 min 42 sec

Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam celebrate and castigate the best and bottom of the barrel in legal marketing during their first-ever awards show.

Feb 11

34 min 40 sec

Gyi and Conrad divine what’s to come in 2021 and offer New Year’s resolutions for those wedded to vanity metrics.

Jan 13

33 min 55 sec

Gyi and Conrad explain the term UTM and why it helps mine SEO gold. Spoiler alert: Google is involved.


Dec 2020

36 min 16 sec

Gyi and Conrad discuss some fundamentals that need to come first before you get fancy with your SEO. Friend of the Pod Jared Correia joins in to discuss the Digital Client Journey and to play a game of Becoming the Archetype.

Nov 2020

45 min 5 sec

Now that Conrad and Gyi have decided whether or not to rebrand this podcast, the game is on to see who can market it best.

Oct 2020

36 min 59 sec

Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam take on the cold-hearted client rejection letter, review the headlines, and consider a new podcast jingle.


Sep 2020

42 min 10 sec

Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam explore new Google Screened ads, respond to listener feedback, and ask for your help in rebranding this very podcast.


Aug 2020

37 min 39 sec

Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam dissect current events and trends affecting legal marketing.

Jul 2020

41 min 25 sec

Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam serve up strategic tips to help you invest your marketing money wisely.


Jun 2020

40 min 48 sec

A new chapter for Lunch Hour Legal Marketing begins today with new co-host Conrad Saam. Tune in to hear the first of what promises to be a long line of insightful conversations.


May 2020

49 min 23 sec

Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street share how to create tactful, empathetic marketing to reach new clients during the pandemic.

Apr 2020

41 min 23 sec

Rich Marvel explains how data can pinpoint areas of success and weakness to help lawyers make better business choices.

Mar 2020

15 min 12 sec

Wendy Witt gives tips for creating marketing strategies that emulate your firm’s goals and your personal ideals.

Mar 2020

47 min 6 sec

Janet Falk gives attorneys tips for connecting with reporters to become a source for comments.

Feb 2020

55 min 25 sec

Paul Faust explains the benefits of branded phone numbers for law firms.

Jan 2020

49 min 24 sec

Casey Cheshire shares strategies for successful marketing automation.

Dec 2019

58 min 41 sec

Katy Goshtasbi shares strategies for identifying and utilizing your strengths to grow your legal business.

Nov 2019

48 min 36 sec

Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street answer listener questions in this special mailbag episode.

Sep 2019

53 min 51 sec

Traci Reuter offers essential strategies for social media marketing for lawyers.

Aug 2019

47 min 59 sec

Thomas Hamilton examines AI trends in the legal industry and dispels many myths surrounding AI tech.

Jul 2019

56 min 12 sec

Rebecca Harding of Saltwhistle shares the value of creating a human connection with clients, common mistakes in law firm marketing, and how younger lawyers can help drive their firms’ IT planning.

Jun 2019

40 min 10 sec

Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street talk to Michelle Calcote King about all things PR for law firms. They discuss best practices for press releases, laying out what types of news are worthy of release to the media and outlining how to establish a relationship with a journalist.

May 2019

47 min 24 sec

In this episode, hosts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street talk to Martha van Berkel about all things schema markup, a.k.a. structured data. Martha explains how this data language helps search engines understand what people are looking for in the real world and connects them to optimal search results. They discuss how lawyers can apply schema markup in their SEO and how understanding what drives online engagement can help lawyers make better business decisions.

Apr 2019

56 min 9 sec

Some lawyers may not realize that creating fake reviews is illegal and has serious consequences. In this episode, hosts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street talk to Jason Brown, founder of, about his work investigating fraudulent reviews. They define what constitutes a fake review and discuss the most common instances of abuse found in the legal community.

Mar 2019

51 min 34 sec

How can lawyers build influence in the legal community? In this episode, hosts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street talk to Jordan Harbinger about his career as a social dynamics expert and influential podcaster. They discuss Jordan’s networking advice for creating meaningful and useful professional connections. They also delve into how to make good impressions and exude approachability.

Feb 2019

1 hr 4 min

How can lawyers make their online content more visible for prospective clients? In this episode, hosts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street talk to Dave Chaffey about how lawyers can implement technology for digital marketing. Prospective clients are drawn in by good online content, but the huge number of marketing technologies available may make the choice seem daunting. Kelly and Gyi get insight from Dave on how lawyers can prioritize the tech that will serve them best.

Jan 2019

45 min 18 sec

In this episode, hosts Kelly Street and Gyi Tsakalakis talk to Dr. Natalia Wiechowski, personal branding strategist and international keynote speaker, about what elements need to be considered as lawyers develop a personal brand. She gives insight into how interacting with social media, particularly LinkedIn, can enhance your brand and grow your business. Dr. Natalia also shares how she came to be known as the LinkedIn Unicorn.

Dec 2018

46 min 25 sec

Hosts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street talk to Rand Fishkin about his new book, “Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World.” Gyi and Kelly get tips from Rand about how lawyers can use the tactics from his book as they build their businesses. Rand gives practical advice about reputation building, client research, resource development, current SEO trends, and much more.

Nov 2018

45 min 41 sec

For most people networking feels like a chore, but strong connections can impact every facet of your life, especially your business. Hosts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street talk to Jayson Gaignard about how he builds himself up by building up his connections. He shares networking tips that can apply to the most introverts as well as advice on how to build successful relationships with mentors and peers.

Oct 2018

46 min 42 sec

For lawyers who want to use technology in their firm but are overwhelmed by options and implementation challenges, this episode is for you. Hosts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street talk to Chad Burton about legal technology trends and how law firms can step up their tech game. They challenge the idea that lawyers are generally tech-averse and talk about the regulatory issues that affect client communication through technology.

Sep 2018

42 min 5 sec

For lawyers who are investing a lot of time and money into marketing your firm, how can you tell whether that marketing is working? Hosts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street explore the topic of testing and analyzing your marketing techniques in order to make informed and data-based decisions about where you’re investing your time and money. They discuss establishing your marketing goals and the different methods of tracking your success rate, from web analytics to call tracking.

Aug 2018

31 min 39 sec

Why did you start a law practice? Was it to help people struggling with family law issues or to work for yourself in a strong business? It is important to understand your “whys” -- the essential reasons for becoming a lawyer -- to build a foundation for your firm’s marketing. Mitch Jackson goes in depth about how to build a digital footprint using newsjacking, in which lawyers can become experts using their knowledge to comment on current events.

Jul 2018

40 min 16 sec

We are excited to announce our relaunch with legal marketing experts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street as hosts. This new show, which can be consumed during your lunch break, will feature high-profile marketing gurus as guests, both within the legal industry and across all fields of professional services.

Jul 2018

3 min 25 sec